Conversation #4 Josh Garrels & John Mark McMillan no. 10

Holy Spirit, spiritual kung-fu?

While recording artist John Mark McMillan still loves the faith of his father's charismatic church, while he believes in prophetic ministry and the power of the Holy Spirit, much of his early spiritual formation has been what he calls, "Christian kung-fu." Recently he has turned to Dallas Willard and Richard Foster to learn the basics of Christian life. He is surprised that exercise--the discipline of caring for his body--has allowed him to find the daily energy to tend to prayer and the demands of music and family.

Josh Garrels also has been learning to take more control of his calendar, to delegate creative work to others, and to practice Sabbath keeping with his family. 

In episode no. 10 I sit down with these recording artists to discover their shared interest in the ordinary, basic disciplines of life. This conversation turns out to be a refreshing interaction about popular culture, music making, pursuing God, love for the church, and caring for family. Garrels did not grow up in the church and brings an earnest, wise hunger for God to his music and faith. In this episode he discusses his interest in: “...old[er] traditions that have cared aesthetically for the wholeness of the Gospel both the theology at the heart of it and the culture that surrounds it." He says, "So many of us have grown tired of an exploited culture that has barnacled itself to the Gospel that isn’t very aesthetically pleasing."

This conversation with Garrels and McMillan is at times brutally honest about Christianity, yet it avoids  church-bashing cynicism. The three of us love the church and hope for her flourishing.

I invite you to listen to Conversation #4 episode no. 10, a conversation with Josh Garrels & John Mark McMillan!We discuss discuss the charismatic, Evangelical, and Catholic church; aesthetic care of worship and worship spaces; reading the Bible for what it actually says; family disciplines and Sabbath keeping, creating more space for God with exercise, when to set aside our screens and be closer to each other. Of course there is discussion about their creative process in writing music and who they are reading: Dylan Thomas, Wendell Berry, AW Tozer, Eugene Peterson, Richard Rohr, Richard Foster, and Dallas Willard.

Conversation #2 Brad Kilman no. 6

December 20, 2016

In early November I had a reunion with my long-time friend, Brad Kilman. Brad and I have been friends since we were 18, almost 25 years. We were interns together at Bridgeway Church in Oklahoma City in 1999. We wrote our first worship songs and recorded them with Charlie Hall for his Generation Productions during that time.

Over the years since I have had to discern my way through the conundrum of contemporary worship. There is enormous power in those instruments and musical voicings that can easily dethrone God with ego and self-worship. As I've struggled to trust leaders and songs, Brad has been a touchstone especially when he says things like:

"I only have my own affection and my own prayer. And if that is not true and honest before him, the I have nothing to give...."

It had been two years since we had been together, so there was much to talk about. The recurring theme of our discussion on and off the podcast mic was how to follow God. As the conversation progressed, we began to outline the similarities between leading worship and practicing spiritual direction.

Mostly it was just good to be with a spiritual friend. 

A spiritual friend is a true gift of the Holy Spirit. A spiritual friend shows you God in ways that make you jealous for more of God. Deep calls unto deep. Brad's relationship with Jesus--the way he sings to God and loves God is contagious. 

I welcome you into conversation #2 with Brad Kilman as we cover topics like song writing, mentoring worship leaders, the influence Charlie Hall and Don Chafer had on us, balancing life with ministry, serving a local church community, the ego, the enneagram, Taizé, and our first experiences in a recording studio.

www.bradkilman.com Also check out www.theversesproject.com to find more of Brad's music. The next interview will be with author, Sharon Garlough Brown in anticipation of a contemplative prayer retreat for church leaders she will be co-leading with Josh February 7-8. Then we will begin releasing a new five-minute retreat format that will correspond to Josh's prayer guide, "Forty Ways to Spend Five-Minutes With God." At the end of this episode you can hear a bit of a song based on Psalm 103 written by Brad and recorded in a cabin during their time in a cabin near Three Rivers, MI.