Josh is visited by his long-time friend Brad Kilman, a worship leader and songwriter from Oklahoma City. They discuss spiritual friendship, the similarities between worship leading and spiritual direction, songwriting, their first experiences in a recording studio, spiritual listening, dealing with ego in leadership, Taizé, and the enneagram. www.bradkilman.com Also check out www.theversesproject.com to find more of Brad's music. The next interview will be with author, Sharon Garlough Brown in anticipation of a contemplative prayer retreat for church leaders she will be co-leading with Josh February 7-8. Then we will begin releasing a new five-minute retreat format that will correspond to Josh's prayer guide, "Forty Ways to Spend Five-Minutes With God." At the end of this episode you can hear a bit of a song based on Psalm 103 written by Brad and recorded in a cabin during their time in a cabin near Three Rivers, MI.